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Yay Sci-Fi

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 9:47 pm

The idea was made in order to provide an excellent framework for fantastic adventures and memorable villains, with every piece of society having its own set of restrictions. (Noblemen dealing with financial difficulty, middle classes dealing with the increasingly prudent society and economic strain caused by the new wealth of jobs (And trying to ascend to nobility,), and the aliens having to deal with the racial tensions.

Now, the bio-weapon: The proposed bio-weapon would have to be ruthlessly efficient to even take half a trillion. Any response that succeed would pretty much cut it off before it could do serious damage.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 9:59 pm

Its not fool proof, but some minor suspension of disbelief is to be expected. As to disregard that would require the disregarding a good number of movies, books and games. However, I do bring another thing to solution.

The Bio-weapon while devastatingly effective, could possibly have a "kill switch" of sorts. as a method to prevent the weapon from spreading outside the intended contaminated zone. By this concept, while the weapon is in fact devastating, the kill switch had to activated early in order to prevent the infection from spreading to far and causing collateral damage to surrounding regions. This of course follows a concept that while they were able to develop such a devastating bio-weapon, they were unable to cause it to "gene lock" to humans specificly. This could further be alluded to that over the time the humans had developed minor gene manipulation, meaning that the virus would of had to be intentionally "adaptable" in order to service a wider range of hosts.

Now, back to your own idea, while that is still an interesting concept. it doesn't exactly help with the complications it would pose for players both in metagame and in character. As should critical members be taken out of commission (Say the human captain is "disabled" during a mission and the remainder of his away team is non humans) then there would be a very significant issue with resolving the plot, as assuming they are in an environment of racist activity, said characters would be extremely limited in how they could react.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:03 pm

I believe the complications to be a wonderful aspect. Dramatic tension is always highly enjoyable, and any direct action would cause the cameras to catch it, at least keeping players alive.

The problem with the bioweapon is that it will remove many possible adventures from play, and will probably prove detrimental.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Travis on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:04 pm

The same could be argued about the racism against aliens in your own idea, of course.
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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:05 pm

Reil wrote:The problem with the bioweapon is that it will remove many possible adventures from play, and will probably prove detrimental.
Not really. I can only see it adding more.

You would get to explore the ruins of human civilization, for example.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:05 pm

But you lose the conflict between nobility and their lower class friends, as well as the exploration of the fall of nobility. (Ignoring scientific plausibility as a factor.)

The virus COULD be featured in an adventure, though.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:20 pm

How dose the bioweapon reduce the possibility adventure paths? considering it is a piece of background information, something that may or may not be encountered depending on the direction of the roleplay.

In addition, comparing the discrimination between social classes and the discrimination against race isn't a true comparison. as discrimination between social classes is a social implication. something that may be overcome. Racial discrimination is more severe and indeed a flat out restriction on what a character may or may not do in a situation. Thats hardly a fair comparison.

In truth, I would find that being unable to act in a situation because of a Racial discrimination far more limited to my character. then if we must find a way to keep the crew quarantined from an infected environment. as in quarantine the characters are still free to operate inside the bounderies and seek solutions to the issue, How ever, if it was a racial discrimination forming the boundary, the character is helpless to act against it.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:23 pm

The point is that, for the duration of these character's lives, they are all restricted. By upbringing, by status, by financials, or by race. The mercenary work gives the aliens and lower classes a chance to break from their oppression. These can be used to show how villains are created, from pirate/rebel aliens to the backstabbing nobleman struggling to keep his rank, these make the players be able to understand how villains form, and allow the players to have the chance of falling into that trap.
  Not only this, but it allows for some interesting dialogue. (c:)

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:28 pm

While that may be your point, that doesn't solve the problem. so I do at least propose the following. the removal of racial discrimination, this of course is still following the disbelief that such large social class implications would suddenly reappear in the future. If a race was given flat discrimination, I would find they would not openly join this "federation". Technological offers might entice, but that in and of itself wouldn't mean a race would allow itself to be placed into a lower social status.

If you wish to maintain the racial discrimination, then there must be an answer for why it is present, rather then just for the complications. Can you at least try to offer solutions? After all, you were more then willing to sit there debunking the bio-weapon.

While I do not speak for them, I know at least some of us likely wouldn't enjoy having to play with such discrimination or restrictions upon what our characters may or may not do. Thus I am trying to seek a concept that would be more friendly to everyone, rather then just making for interesting implications.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:30 pm

It isn't discrimination in the law. The law is against it.

This, however, does not mean that people don't discriminate against them. Or noblemen. Or working class. Or whoever. There is always discrimination from someone. I said discrimination to Des in order to show to him that it was something that could cause some interesting conflict at some point.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:33 pm

Interesting conflict or not, it is still a major implication placed upon characters that shouldn't be taken lightly. I must further raise concern, that in an age of FTL. Why has the social implications between classes suddenly reappeared? considering that as of modern times, they have grown far more subtle in most modern countries. Could you provide some background as to the sudden resurgence of the social separation?

I would much enjoy if there was more ground for why there is the social implication other then "Interesting conflicts". considering we were trying to find background information for why the humans were scared in my own concept.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:36 pm

The nobility exists even today. They are simply prospering because, at the point in time of my idea, ships are just expensive enough to produce that they are out of reach of the populace, and the lack of other, more mobile pieces of competition, such as startups, make the aristocracy important to rising through your class.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:39 pm

The problem with that, private corporations are currently involved with the space program in attempts to make it more budget friendly to achieve space. For ships to suddenly become expensive enough for nobility would require a major regression in current developments. that alone though doesn't justify the social classes to suddenly discriminate between each other.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:40 pm

The expensive part came from the invention of the FTL system, which requires a holographic filter for ships that is replaced often. (That along with a crew suitable for long-term voyages and the dangers OF the 'gate' system.)

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:49 pm

That still doesn't in any form suddenly produce the social implications. While wealth is always a separating factor, even in the current world, this doesn't create as massive as a social rift as you seem to think it would. As is, this would also require nobility to be separate from the government for the social rifts to actually appear. otherwise you would see riots against said nobility. Even then, the concept that the nobility could actually get away with creating such social rifts falls apart when you come to the realization that the lower classes can and WILL tear down nobility.

Edit- This is also of course disregarding the fact that holographic systems aren't that expensive, along with the fact that if you had to have specialist crews, then social classes wouldn't mater for the crews.


Last edited by Sliprunner on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:52 pm

They WILL be torn down. But for the moment, they are necessary to proper. The rift comes in due to a sense of superiority among the nobility, who have gained much from their privateer ventures, and now, with their children owning the businesses as opposed to the originals who started the venture, they are reaping the benefits with relatively little work. The workforce is slowly yet steadily catching up, and they are at risk. The only advantage they have is their fluidity, as opposed to the lumbering corporations which are slowly taking the Privateer space.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:55 pm

That STILL doesn't change the fact that the nobility wouldn't of GAINED the power in the first place. so please, elaborate on that. Holographic technology isn't nearly as expensive as other technologies in development, considering that DIY projects can produce psudo-holographic generators for less then 1,000. Which means you would also have to suffer massive regressions in holographic technology. I'm asking you to actually state why the social rift appeared. The nobility don't have enough power in the modern day to even pull this, as most nobility gets their funding from the government.

Edit- This is also discounting the fact that current private corporations are actually faster then anything government operated.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:59 pm

The holography isn't FOR imaging, though. It is for the capture and holding of material properties, as well as the splitting of beams of light. It is far more than a standard image. The aristocracy, which were DYING, much like they are now, did this in an attempt to gain money. It paid off, and now they have to deal with retaining their new-found power and reclaimed position in daily life. Startups were too small to gain ships that could be maintained or safely operated, and large corporations were conservative with their business choices, leaving the aristocracy and corporations as the main independent power. There ARE riots, and there is unrest. The aristocracy is struggling to hold footing, and prices are coming down at a steady rate.


Startups are fast when it comes to things with low barriers-to-entry. There is a reason Intel still reigns supreme for processors.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 11:10 pm

This still creates more problems though, As this requires that the major companies invested into holographic technology to not only slow in progress but to fall behind groups that haven't even invested. This also requires that said corporations would have to give up the patents they already have on concepts at the same time. This also requires several regressions in current technology, regressions in current social structure, along with regressions with industrial capability.

While yes, it is an interesting concept, it needs to be grounded upon at least something. Currently, your idea is no better off then the complaints you were rising about the bio-weapon. the concept of this collab is to create a more open roleplay. However, it feels like you are resisting changing the idea.

While yes, discrimination and such would be an interesting concept to be involved with. I personally, along with some people here, wouldn't enjoy having to play with the knowledge that we can't develop our characters as freely. Capping creativity to maintain a single concept isn't something that should be done, Especially when it is something as serious as social and racial discrimination.

Out of the entire concept, the major problem with it so far. Is that the social class implications, are PURELY by money, which if it can't create those implications in the current times, I don't personally see where it would create them in the future. There has to be more motivation then just that.

Edit-This is also of course, discounting the fact that nobility would have to suddenly be capable of operating in a completely unfamiliar industrial field.
Edit2-Also, what you are referring to sounds more like a digitizer then anything else. To which we already have something along those lines in development for use with 3d printers.
Edit3-Now I'm stuck picturing "Faxing a Starship"

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 11:20 pm

Holographic technology is a quantum tech. It takes money. The major corporations continue investing in it, and the aristocrats continue buying them. The aristocrats then outfit a ship with some guys, send them off, and reap the profits from contract work of varying sorts. Prices are steadily going down. 
   As I said, the aristocracy is pretty much going to be done with at the end of this generation. Their heirs are ill-prepared and ill-tempered, their economical opponents are approaching from all sides. Creativity comes into play whilst working within the confines of something. Truly memorable characters fit into their setting. Relationships are strained by the various difficulties on all members, and the rapid colonization by an exponentially expanding populace further ups the ante for all participating. Nobility fight each other to retain their acquired fortunes, and the friendships forged prior to the economic bubble are being put to the test. Money is only a factor for the aristocracy's need to lash out at lower classes. The strains on the other two are from society's expectations.

This, of course, is not to overlook the bonds that can form between the various classes, the exceptions, etc.
The nobility do very little other than hire the privateers and pay for their ships, while, occasionally, travelling with them if they are having a particularly tough time on Terra.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 11:26 pm

It is different to a digitizer in that the matter is converted into energy, brought through a wormhole, and then reformed. This drives a thriving planet cracking industry.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 11:29 pm

I wouldn't call holographic technology quantum tech. When current developments into the field may possibly bring it to the common man in a few years time. what you are referring to though isn't holographic, its a light based digitizer, which is currently under development for teleportation technologies. Even still, this is putting nobility in a role other then what they operate as. Nobility acts as leadership, Aristocrats in a traditional sense, don't exist anymore. they have been replaced by entrepreneurs already. which again, would mean a regression in current social structure.

The problem is, if FTL is this expensive to operate, then its to expensive for anything other then governments and mega corporations to operate. As both of these have far more wealth to draw on then the nobility. And I will bring it up again, this also requires the nobility to suddenly be far more competent then current corporations with technological advances. To which nobility currently doesn't assist at all. This STILL needs more then money as a backing, because otherwise it would still operate the same as modern social structure and the only true social discrimination would be via money. We still need an actual motivator for why the social class separation suddenly regressed.

Edit- also, mater to energy, through a wormhole and back together? that's called a "teleporter" only, it skips the wormhole part.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 11:36 pm

They purchase from the large corporations, which run the FTL stations, which, consequently, make large amounts of profit. The planet Earth was united in 2133 AD, built into a constitutional monarchy after 20 year long biological weapon western standoff. Aristocratic connections to the monarchy brought five families to prominence, with more following shortly before the government-sponsored invention of the warp stations. Standard teleportation would 'kill' any living things involved.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 11:54 pm

That raises SEVERAL problems in and of itself. which again, requires the nobility to suddenly of gained a freedom they don't have. it also requires several nations worth of people to suddenly abandon their political and civil right views. this ALSO requires the world to suddenly be in favor of constitutional monarchies. this ALSO requires these large corporations to choose to work with an inexperienced middleman (Nobility) rather then work with well established distributors. this also, as I shall say, creates a WEALTH gap, not a social one. you appear to be confusing the two. Most importantly, this is causing a larger and larger regression in the ENTIRE industrial complex just to suit a single concept.

To be fair, the bio-weapon causing humanities collapse is sounding far more realistic then the amount of regression dependencies this requires. Which sense you seem to be using a bio-weapon as a reason for why things became as they did, then I must ask, why you were so against such an idea earlier. I will say this once, PLEASE if you are going to make an argument for a concept, Don't use ideas that you had shot down earlier. because in vain to your own concerns earlier, Why did this bio-weapon cause humanity to unite just because of a standoff? because otherwise its nothing more then a recreation of the cold war, which last I checked, took more then 20 years, and didn't resolve in a united government.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

Post by Guest on Tue 29 Oct 2013, 12:00 am

The social gap comes from the wealth. You appear to be ignoring everything I've said. This occurred over 100 years prior to the story, and thus needn't be covered in too much detail. If you want it covered, it'll get explained if/when the plot is used. You're explanation of the bio-weapon amounted to a general idea, without ANY idea of the if/when. There WAS social regression, and there was a point where the aristocracy had a chance and took it, boosting their social standing in a successful investment. This allowed them to spend MORE money on acquiring MORE power. How this is hard to understand, I don't know.
   Social tensions arose due to the assimilation of the alien species, as well as the continued existence and now dominance of aristocracy as, essentially, politicians.

Edit: I don't know what you mean by "don't have", as even now they can spend their money as they wish...
an investment is an investment.

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Re: Yay Sci-Fi

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